65mm Throttle body

[AspitFire]

the next mod before winter i want to be a 65mm throttle body. Greg where did you get yours done? where did you get the plate that goes with it? how much did it cost? or anyone else know any place that will do if for a good price??

I know there is a BB going on PT for these, but it is a hassle, and you dont een get your "own" piece back. plus its $150 and i cant see a shop charging more then $50 to bore it out.

[rebby]

call a few machine shops that do cylinder boring and honing. i'm sure that they could do it... now getting the correct throttle plate, that may be a bit more difficult but again, i bet the same shop could machine one for you....

[rebby]

oh, you could even have them magaflux your tb then you go as far as maybe 68mm ;)

[Eric94GT]

jeff jeske is selling the plates on his website i think.

[AspitFire]

Originally posted by rebby
oh, you could even have them magaflux your tb then you go as far as maybe 68mm ;)

what exactly is magaflux?? if its safe ill go as large as possible

[probespeed]

:p Jeff Jeske says it is useless to go any further than 64mm because the throtle body then acts as a void in the intake where the air slows down or something like that:shrug: He is not selling the 64mm butterflies any more either he found someone else who could make them cheaper for us probers.

:lol: hahahaha!! I called us "probers" :lol:

[probespeed]

Oh ya, it's magnaflux, and it is a way to check for cracks in metal.

[rebby]

Originally posted by probespeed
Oh ya, it's magnaflux, and it is a way to check for cracks in metal. yep, machine shops usually do it to see how far is to far when boring out a block.. i'm sure that it could apply to your tb too... like probespeed said though, once you get so large, call it quits. otherwise your going to get to big and all that your goign to do is drop air volosity and as we all know, poor vacuum results in poor performance...

[AspitFire]

ok so i will stick w/ 65mm anyway greg, your online, where did you get yours done at?

[tracer bullet]

I had a guy from PT do it, he worked at a machine shop and had done a few, and sold the service. Whole deal was like $85 I think, plus shipping each way. It was brought up several times since then, but he sort of disappeared. I mean he did the work and did it well, but stopped doing it anymore. Dead end there.

Magnaflux is a brand name for magnetic particle testing. Basically you magnetize a piece of metal and poor a watery solution over it. The liquid has some rust preventative in it of course, but is full of super fine metal flakes - flakes that glow under a black light. On a smooth surface it all runs right off, but in the cracks the magnetizing holds all the flakes there. So ultimately you look at it under a black light, and the cracks stand out as really bright lines. Doesn't work for material that can't be magnetized though (like aluminum throttle bodies).

[AspitFire]

do you remember his name???

[rebby]

Originally posted by tracer bullet
I had a guy from PT do it, he worked at a machine shop and had done a few, and sold the service. Whole deal was like $85 I think, plus shipping each way. It was brought up several times since then, but he sort of disappeared. I mean he did the work and did it well, but stopped doing it anymore. Dead end there.

Magnaflux is a brand name for magnetic particle testing. Basically you magnetize a piece of metal and poor a watery solution over it. The liquid has some rust preventative in it of course, but is full of super fine metal flakes - flakes that glow under a black light. On a smooth surface it all runs right off, but in the cracks the magnetizing holds all the flakes there. So ultimately you look at it under a black light, and the cracks stand out as really bright lines. Doesn't work for material that can't be magnetized though (like aluminum throttle bodies). cool, i didn't know how magnafluxing actually worked... i knew it was there to detect cracks though... wow, i feel smarter now.. :tup:

[probespeed]

They use a color die for checking for cracks in aluminum.:D When we learned how to magnaflux in school we actualy used metal flakes not liquid but the crack crates its own magnetic field inside a biger one to attract all the filings.

:)


And I would suggest sticking with 64mm. Jeff Jeske did the flow tests and dyno tests on different sizes and 64mm was the best number he came up with.

You can't argue with a tested fact.:)

[MN Probe GT]

1mm isn't going to show any useful difference in a dyno plot. There are too many other factors. farting next to the intake would produce a bigger difference in power.

[probespeed]

1mm won't make a noticable difference but why lose the unnoticable increase anyway:shrug:

isn't it about getting the most performance for your buck:shrug:

[MN Probe GT]

Originally posted by probespeed
1mm won't make a noticable difference but why lose the unnoticable increase anyway:shrug:

isn't it about getting the most performance for your buck:shrug:
sigh.....the point is that you have no idea if 64mm or 65mm is better. Any differences are easily within the margins of error.

[probespeed]

sigh...the point is jeff jeske did the reserch and found that 64mm is better thats why he made a 64mm butterfly instead of a 65mm butterfly...anyway....sigh

[rebby]

kirk makes a good point though. either way jeff had to make a decision on what size to make... :shrug:

[probespeed]

:no: I give up:no:

[rebby]

Originally posted by probespeed
:no: I give up:no: :lol: i'm not argueing that 65mm or 64mm is better. i'm just questioning the mechanical abilities of his instruments. anyway, i'd probably go w/64mm on a PGT also...

[probespeed]

:bd:

[MN Probe GT]

dude, listen to what I'm saying. dyno plots are very inaccurate when it comes down to 1 or 2 horsepower differences. If you ran it once, then ran it again right after, the numbers could be off by as much as 5hp. This is called the margin of error. You do agree that there is error, right? because you seem to be oblivious to this fact. suppose the 64mm throttle body actually decreased power by 1hp. But then the error in the results showed a 5hp gain. So one would see a gain of 4hp, even though that's not really the case. In order to prove which size is best, you would have to eliminate all other variables, and with heat being a major factor in engine performance, this is just not possible.

obviously this argument doesn't hold for everything, but it does show that you can't trust small differences in your results, especially if you can't eliminate all other variables.

[probespeed]

I have a minor in automotive engineering technology from MNSU Mankato. I do understand that there are errors. hell I've even run the dyno we have at school. the reason for the 64mm is because if it is any bigger the air will have to slow down before it enters the intake manifold. THIS IS BAD!!!!!! it will result in air turbulance. Air turbulance results in less air getting into the cylinders. If this turbulance didn't cause a loss in horsepower then why in the hell would anybody go through the work of boreing out their TB, port matching, polishing, or special valve jobs. 64mm is the perfect size because the mass air unit on our cars can only flow so much air. 65mm WILL SLOW THAT AIR DOWN!!!

[tracer bullet]

Why? Is the MAF 64mm? What about the intake opening itself? Wouldn't getting rid of one kink in the straw be better than getting rid of none at all?

[probespeed]

:no: :no: :no: :no: This time I really give up.

[rebby]

Originally posted by probespeed
:no: :no: :no: :no: This time I really give up. whoa, whoa, whoa, don't be so quick here... tracer makes a good point but i think i can answer his question... my GUESS is that it all relates to vacuum and velocity. sure you would think that going from 64mm to 65mm (or even 70mm) back to whatever the flange for the tb on the im is wouldn't hurt but like probespeed said, this will in fact slow the incoming air down and cause turbulance. this will totally fuck up the nice smooth flow of air that we strive for and it whould efectivly kill your engine's ve...

[probespeed]

Thanks for the :help: rebby at least one person understands.:shrug:

[MN Probe GT]

Originally posted by probespeed
I have a minor in automotive engineering technology from MNSU Mankato. I do understand that there are errors. hell I've even run the dyno we have at school. the reason for the 64mm is because if it is any bigger the air will have to slow down before it enters the intake manifold. THIS IS BAD!!!!!! it will result in air turbulance. Air turbulance results in less air getting into the cylinders. If this turbulance didn't cause a loss in horsepower then why in the hell would anybody go through the work of boreing out their TB, port matching, polishing, or special valve jobs. 64mm is the perfect size because the mass air unit on our cars can only flow so much air. 65mm WILL SLOW THAT AIR DOWN!!!

going from 60mm to 64mm slows the air down too.... :smokin:

[tracer bullet]

Hehe - exactly. So - is that bad or not? Depends... (not the "undergarments" either)

Does anyone know what the size is of the opening to the intake manifold itself? One end of the TB should be that size. What's the exit of the MAF? That's what size the other end should be. That'd be my target anyways. If the TB is smaller, it should be bigger. But when you go past that point, there's not much use for it being any bigger, since that bottleneck is gone.

[AspitFire]

ok, greg do you remember that guys name, e mail or anything??

[probespeed]

[i] there's not much use for it being any bigger, since that bottleneck is gone. [/B]


:Pissed: exactly:Pissed:

[rebby]

Originally posted by MN Probe GT


going from 60mm to 64mm slows the air down too.... :smokin: maybe, maybe not... have you checked w/vacuum gauges b4 and after the tb on a 60mm and 64mm tb? didn't think so... this is pretty much the same deal as a carb.. you can move from a 600cfm carb to a 800cfm and probably not notice the loss in vacuum due to the increase in air mass. then again, a move from a 600cfm to a 1500cfm race carb is a different story. your vacuum drops off so much you will be lucky to get the car to idle below 1500rpm. besides once you get your tb (or carb) flowing enough to satisfy the cam @ an acceptable level of vacuum (about 12-15 in/merc @ idle), all you're doing is hurting performance...

[VDubb]

Bulk buy on 65mm TB currently going on at PT's temp site.

http://probesport.extremespace.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d8b334e34afffff;act=ST;f=16;t=78; st=0

[MN Probe GT]

Originally posted by VDubb
Bulk buy on 65mm TB currently going on at PT's temp site.

http://probesport.extremespace.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d8b334e34afffff;act=ST;f=16;t=78; st=0

yeah I was really thinking of getting one....now if only I wasn't so lazy....damn.

I even have a spare TB in my closet! :lol:

for the record, I think 64 mm or 65mm is fine...I've heard people get gains from 64 or 65....I would take either, because like I've been saying...it doesn't make much difference, and whatever difference there is, you're never going to notice.

[AspitFire]

Originally posted by VDubb
Bulk buy on 65mm TB currently going on at PT's temp site.

http://probesport.extremespace.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d8b334e34afffff;act=ST;f=16;t=78; st=0

yea, but its $140!!! i know i can get one done localy for almost half that ~$80 is what im guessing

[MN Probe GT]

Originally posted by AspitFire


yea, but its $140!!! i know i can get one done localy for almost half that ~$80 is what im guessing

they can bore it out easily...the hard part is getting the new plate and making it fit right.

[tracer bullet]

Originally posted by AspitFire
ok, greg do you remember that guys name, e mail or anything??

Sorry, the whole time I didn't, just forgot to mention it. I don't have any info from back then, I used Win98 at the time and reloaded things every other month.

However - I do remember! It was Jed Devilbis. Or at least very close to that. I have no info from it at all, just that. When PT gets back up, try a search perhaps. I'm sure I've written on there about it.

[Dave R.]

So if I put an 80mm on what would happen:lol: :p

[Dave R.]

What do you guys think about using a hair dryer for forced induction?

[MN Probe GT]

Originally posted by Dave R.
What do you guys think about using a hair dryer for forced induction?

there is more air being sucked in at idle...it wouldn't make a difference. You need something that can pump in some serious air.

[probespeed]

:lol: :lol:

[MN Probe GT]

Originally posted by probespeed
:lol: :lol:

omg..... :lol:

that's not yours...is it?

[probespeed]

Yea, it works great:shrug:

:lol: :lol:

[Dave R.]

Give me the specs on it!!!!

[jay]

holy crap!!! it looks like ..... ummm... but i dont know how a hair dryer can do a turbine process without getting hot and melting the plastic on the hair dryer.. i mean they arent meant to be ongoing hair dryers... wouldnt that melt or give out after a few hours of consistant power??

[flea]

Originally posted by Jay Mayes
holy crap!!! it looks like ..... ummm... but i dont know how a hair dryer can do a turbine process without getting hot and melting the plastic on the hair dryer.. i mean they arent meant to be ongoing hair dryers... wouldnt that melt or give out after a few hours of consistant power??
are you serious?:wtf:
need sutable response...
IT'S NOT REAL, no exhaust outlet :D

[jay]

dont ask me.. ask dave R why he wants SPEC on it... clearly i wouldnt do that and be that LOW... oops... i better shut my mouth...

[Dave R.]

Originally posted by Jay Mayes
dont ask me.. ask dave R why he wants SPEC on it... clearly i wouldnt do that and be that LOW... oops... i better shut my mouth... Jay, I was joking... :no:

[jay]

i know.. i was being sarastic to u guys... making you think i was geeky enuf to try to actually believe this sh%t...

[matt]

actually, electronic forced induction is becoming more and more popular these days. but based on the rollerlade wheel/bearing attached to the turbine, im guessing its supposed to be belt driven. if that hairdryer could put out a suitable and stable amount of cfm (which it cant) to match a fuel curve, then there is no reason it wouldnt work. a leafblower would be more appropriate. and exaust port? what the hell...are you blind? air is sucked in through the filter and forced out the shitty looking metal tube into the maf sensor.
________
B series (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Dodge_B_Series)

[jay]

.

[matt]

well i guess i am a newbie since i dont post all the time. but i did study automotive technology, and probably know more than you, or at least enough to know not to buy an automatic-:rolleyes:
________
FORD DURATEC ENGINE PICTURE (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_Duratec_engine)

[probespeed]

Well, when you get this to work Matt you let us know:rolleyes:

where did you study automotive tech? highschool?:rolleyes:

[tracer bullet]

Well, in his defense he's thinking about it correctly. However, the issue is simply that at any amount of higher RPM, the engine will be sucking in so much air that having that thing in the way will simply be a restriction.

Don't forget the way turbos are shaped too - they aren't just pushing air - they are totally compressing it. The fan in a hair dryer is designed to push air for cooling, not compress it for engine use. Even if you had a boat sized hair dryer, it still wouldn't compress the air very much.

[flea]

Originally posted by matt
and exaust port? what the hell...are you blind?
am i blind? :wtf: it's sposed to resemble a turbo, right??? i am thinking of a turbo, which is turned by EXHAUST gasses, think about it..:lol: :bd:

[matt]

well first of all, its allready been done, obviously not with a hairdryer, but something similar. im not saying that i support it, i was simply pointing out that it wasnt as ridiculous as eveyone was thinking, and it has been known to produce moderate horsepower on a dyno. and its obviously not supposed to resemble a turbo seeing as it would be belt driven. so i guess you are blind. but more than that, tracer is right, it only has one turbine, where as a turbo has 2, connected internally with an impeller shaft. but the point remains, that this could work. using a throttle controled rheastat, capacitor, impeller with properly shaped blades suitable to produce high amounts of cfm, and possibly an extra battery. but i guess since i was disagreeing with a few comp geeks than i am in fact an idiot.
________
BMW 3 SERIES (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_3_Series)

[flea]

have you ever seen a turbo???!!! EXHAUST DRIVEN!!!
a supercharger is belt driven...
goddamn newbies. :thup:

[KL03]

Ok, so let me get this straght, Matts knowladge is depended on how many posts he has? The fact that he is a newbie isn't even related. And oh, by the way, who drives a Ford Focus, this isn't MNFOC!! Sorry, but Matt has the better argument here. He was trying to imply that since its belt driven, it resembles a supercharger. He knows what a turbo looks like. And his education was provided by a collage, not a high school. So don't just assume something because he is a newbie.:no:
________
girlfriend pictures (http://girlfriendpics.org)

[naustin]

Rare..HISSSSS.....:rolleyes:

[tracer bullet]

play nice!

[flea]

holy crap, i read his post all wrong, sorry matt, and kl03, and the focus crack was kindof uncalled for, just for the record the only reason i was introduced to this forum is for the fact that i owned the probes brother, the MX6, so yea i do feel i have a right to be here..
once again, sorry matt, i misunderstood the post. forgiven?:tup:

[KL03]

Hey, don't worry about it. Sometimes that happens you know? And your a nice enough guy to apalogize, so its all good. Oh, and I know about the MX-6 thing. So its not that Im kicking you off the site, I don't even have the power to. So, yea, forgiven:thup:
________
marijuana joint (http://howtorollajoint.net/)

[matt]

oh of course man:) anyone willing to appologize is allright in my book. i didnt mean to sound like such a dick, its just that i had some valid points, and it seemed like they were overlooked because im a newbie. anyway, thanks for appologizing:D
________
W111 (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W111)

[flea]

no prob, thanks for accepting the apology!

[jay]

i was given a lot of sh%t when i was a newbie... :no: then a thread about mustang's engine Liters came up .. i knew which years had what engine size... and then after that.. they stop picking on me... so yeah... but me.. i give FleaMX6GT alot of crap so i guess he gets it from me.. so i am sorry KLO3 and Matt...

[probespeed]

:) I am sorry too:)

We can all play nice now:D

[rebby]

;)

[jay]

:lol: telling me you're sorry isnt going to change what had happened before you came.. but its all good now.. so i aint even looking for symathy ( i think its spelled close to right)

[flea]

Originally posted by Jay Mayes
i give FleaMX6GT alot of crap so i guess he gets it from me..
and i tend to dish alot of crap back at ya budday, so when ya want to have another posting war?:D

[tracer bullet]

OMFG, would you guys quit updating this thread and making me check to see if there's more discussion about TB's? I'm thinking there's going to be kissy-face smileys out soon at this rate ;)

[rebby]

:eek:

[MN Probe GT]

Remember that time when we were all arguing about what the best size TB is?

I don't like that dog.

[probespeed]

I was telling matt I was sorry for getting on his case. I don't even know about your issue Jay.:D

There Tracer can open this thread one more time.:lol:

[jay]

i was giving you crap dude... i was being saratastic and yea dude.. i dont like that dog.. shoot it...

[probespeed]

Yea...just shoot the dog already..........

[jay]

at least we both agree on something...

[probespeed]

Originally posted by Jay Mayes
at least we both agree on something...

:lol: :lol:

[probespeed]

Here is your electric supercharger.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1866421196

[flea]

wtf? uhhh, wft?dude i want to get one and put it on my winter festiva! lol!

[flea]

wait a minute, might this acually work?!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1866001701

[jay]

WHOA!!! cool.. too bad it cost 199.00!! but man that looks like it could really suck more air, like triple more PSI than that skinny ass white one... but i think i would stick to a REALLY charger someday... who knows.. it could be a PS deal or a stolen pic like they did to rebby the other day...

[probespeed]

:shrug: It would work if it pushed more air than the motor could suck through its intake on its own:shrug:

[MN Probe GT]

Originally posted by probespeed
:shrug: It would work if it pushed more air than the motor could suck through its intake on its own:shrug:

if it could, I'm sure the electrical current drawn from the engine would restrict the engine more than the 0.5psi increase in pressure. :lol:


btw...some guy did put one of these "e-rams" on his probe. A nut on the fan came lose and fucked his engine.

[probespeed]

btw...some guy did put one of these "e-rams" on his probe. A nut on the fan came lose and fucked his engine. [/B][/QUOTE]

:lol::lol:

[flea]

Originally posted by MN Probe GT

btw...some guy did put one of these "e-rams" on his probe. A nut on the fan came lose and fucked his engine.
:eek:

[jay]

Originally posted by fleaMX6GT

:eek:



:eek:!!!

it scares me whenever i see fleamx6gt do that.....



:lol:

[flea]

yea it takes quite a bit to make me shocked about something.

[jay]

:lol:

[flea]

i don't even want to know what you are laughing about you sick individual. :no:

[jay]

:wtf: i was laughing AT you!! i must be drunk.... or something....