engine swap

[novellino21]

:help: I'm new here so I don't know if this is in the right section or not. But anyway.....I have a 1993 Probe gt mtx. I was wondering if anyone new any probe mechanics in the carver county/ hennipen area. I live in St.Bonifacius mn, over by Waconia and minnetonka. Off of hwy 7. Iv'e been having many problems with my car for a long time now. IT's been sitting in my garage for over a month. I tested it for spark and there is non. I think I need to put it on a diagnostic test or have a mazda or probe mechanic look at the car. If anybody can help me out, that would be very appreciated.
Things done to the car:
-replaced spark plugs
-new altenator belt and serpentime belt
-all plugs checked out and cleaned
-new distributer cap and rotor
-new ignitor module DR-100 (wells)
-new altinator
The car will crank but will not turn over.
The engine has about 175,000 miles on it. I asked around and people said that I should keep this engine because they run strong and go for a long time. I plan on swapping the engine once it gets to like 200,000 or so. I need some place cheap to check out my car now or some place that can swap an engine for cheap.

[Aaron3969]

Your coil may be bad. THats about the only thing left thats not replaced, minus the disty. If that went bad, itll cause a no start and no spark.

[Eric94GT]

Yeah, theres a good chance replacing the whole distributor will fix the problem. Those damn things go out on just about every single PGT some time or another.

[Shrep]

What the two above have said makes sense. Just wondering...have you pulled the codes? I'm thinking you haven't, but if you do it should tell you what's wrong. You don't need to pay anyone to do a diagnostic, it's really pretty simple. There used to be a site with a complete breakdown of how to go about it, but that guy got rid of that page in order to dedicate more space to his new car :(

So, here we go...
Under your hood there is a little box behind the driver's side headlight, along the fender well, next to the battery. On the top of this box it says DIAGNOSTIC. Open the cap and you will see that there is a sticker on the inside of the cap labeling all of the pin holes. Next, take a paperclip or a spare wire and bend it so that it will go into the hole marked TEN and the hole marked GRND. Once you ahve it bent right, insert it into those two holes. Next get in the car with a pad of paper and a pen, place the key in the ignition and turn one click, to ON/ACC, but not START.

Next pay attention to your CHECK ENGINE LIGHT (CEL)...if you've registered a fault code in the computer, it will begin to flash. The flashes represent numbers. Long flashes are 10 short flashes are 1 and a long pause means that's the end of the number. It will repeat itself over and over and over, so you've got plenty of time to get it right.

Example: Long, Long, Short, Short, Short = 23; Long, Short, Short = 12 get it?

Go do that and let us know what codes you get. Several of us have a listing of codes that we can refer to and tell you what the codes mean.

Good luck!

[Splat]

i wonder if scooter throws a "missing engine" code.

[novellino21]

I got a paper clip and stuck it were the diagram told me to. This is what I saw.

When I turned the key all the lights came on as if I were doing a normal start up. THen they turned off. I watched the check engine light. It first did 2 long blinks. the light went off for about a second or two. Then it did 4 short blinks. I wated some more and it just repeated that over and over. So I new that was it.

So according to your example, it went like this:
Long, Long, Short, Short, Short, Short

Another weird thing happend while I was doing this. While watching the check engine light, i noticed that the fuel cutout light was on, and the air bag light was blinking. I don't know if this matters or not but I recorded down what the air bag light was doing. It went like this: First it would do one short blink. Go off for about 4 seconds. Then it would do 4 short blinks. I watched it over and over. So it was doing the same thing each time. So it was a Short blink, went off for about 4 sec., and then Short, Short, Short, Short. For the record, the air bag has never ever gone off before. Does anybody know what this means?

Thanks for all of your guy's help!!! I really appreciate it. I'm really short on money right now, so this is helping me a lot. :D :) :tup:

[Splat]

dont those lights turn on automatically with the car is "on" but isn't running?

who has a code book for a 24?

[novellino21]

My engine is a Klo3
1993 24v DOHC 2.5L V6 Mazda, manual trans.
IF this helps any.

Most of those do come on, but only for a little bit. Most of them turn off after the car is either started or been sitting like that for a little bit. I don't know.........mine turned off except for those three lights I talked about. My abs light comes on, but I don't have abs brakes. The 93 models didn't come standart with abs brakes, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Aaron3969]

24 is the O2 sensor circuit. The fuel pump light will always be on in diagnostic, as should the airbag. Does the cutout light come on normally when its not jumped after you leave the key on for a few seconds? If yes, you need to hit the button on your enertia sensor in the trunk.

[novellino21]

How many o2 sencors are there? Are there only one? Where are they located? How much do they cost? Is it worth to get it from the used market? Like a junk yard or somthing. Would a failed o2 sencor cause a no spark? Because my car is not getting any spark. I've tried pushing the red button in the trunk, but that didn't change anything.

[Splat]

there are 2,
and no, a failed o2 sensor will not cause you're car not to spark.

get a new disty

[hughes46]

Swap an engine for "cheap". Define cheap. The disty is PROBABLY the problem, but you may also want to check the crank sensor as well - at least visually inspect the 3 plug wiring harness to it to verify that the wires haven't been rubbed through by the belts and that the connection is good. It would also be nice to know if you have fuel to the fuel rail in addition to no spark.

[novellino21]

What parts are invovled when you say new disrtibutor? Where are the o2 cencors located?

[Shrep]

WAIT!!

If there was a pause between the longs and the shorts...then it's two different numbers.

However it should start with the lowest number numberically. Is there a chance you missed the four short flashes first??

It doesn't make sense that it would tell you 20 and then 4. However 2 long, and then a pause and 4 short, would definately be 20 and 4. It should have told you 4 short, pause, and 2 long. 4 and 20, because that's the order numerically.

So, either you missed something, or there wasn't a pause. I'm thinknig that you missed something, because you aren't getting spark on a 93 and code 4 would be indicitave of no spark.

Code 04: Crankshaft/Camshaft position sensor or circuit.
This usually means that there is a problem with the Crank sensor communicating with teh Cam sensor. The cam sensor is in the disty and the crank sensor is near the oil pan by the dipstick.

First, make sure all of your connections at the disty are tight...I know it seems futile, but check it anyway. Next, get underneath and pull the Crank sensor out of it's hole, grab an emory board (cardboard nail file) and clean the metal contact. Replace the Sensor and go back up top. Near the adjustment bolt for tightening the belt, there is a connector for the Crank sensor, make sure that's tight. Then, disconnect the negative battery cable, and hold the brake pedal down for 10-20 seconds. Replace the negative cable on the battery and attempt to start the car.

If you still have no spark, we'll have to dig a bit further. Likely replace the disty, however it's probably the ignitor, in which case there's an easy mod that Aaron can walk you through.

I don't buy this code 24 bs. That's the rear O2 sensor inversion error code (yes I'm doing this all off the top of my head at work :lol:) and would not cause you a lack of spark.

I have a 93 PGT in my garage that was plagued with just about every ignition fault code and timing sensor code the book lists, and one that's not listed so I've learned a little about the way the whole thing works. ;)

[naustin]

The distributor is a self contained unit. It is the dealie that your spark plugs, plug into. I can't remember how much they cost, but I think they're pushing $100 or more.

The 02 sensors are about $60-$80 each. The screw into your exhaust system. I believe there is one in each exhaust manifold, before the Catalytic converter and before the two manifold come together.

On the 96 cars, there were additional O2 sensors after the catalytic converter for a Before and After set-up so the computer could monitor the efficiency of the catalyst.

They look like big spark plugs, and have a wiring harness spouting off the top of them.

[novellino21]

So..........do you think it would be worth it, to replace the whole disty? i'm really tight on money right now. So if it's somthing that I can get from the junk yard, I want to do that. And yes there was a pause. That makes sence. I didn't think that the o2 sencor would cause a no spark. So..........do think the first thing that i should do is check code 4? Because the car cranks but won't start. I'm pretty sure that the new ignitor is installed correctly. After I installed it i tryed starting the car and the rpm needle jumped once or twice. Which means that the new ignitor has to be working. Because it's getting power to do that. Please correct me if i'm wrong though. Also what do you mean by 20 and 4. Are you saying that it's either code 20 or code 4? Is it possible that my ignition coil is going out. What are some symptoms that would lead to my coil going out?

[Shrep]

So..........do you think it would be worth it, to replace the whole disty? i'm really tight on money right now. So if it's somthing that I can get from the junk yard, I want to do that. And yes there was a pause. That makes sence. I didn't think that the o2 sencor would cause a no spark. So..........do think the first thing that i should do is check code 4? Because the car cranks but won't start. I'm pretty sure that the new ignitor is installed correctly. After I installed it i tryed starting the car and the rpm needle jumped once or twice. Which means that the new ignitor has to be working. Because it's getting power to do that. Please correct me if i'm wrong though. Also what do you mean by 20 and 4. Are you saying that it's either code 20 or code 4? Is it possible that my ignition coil is going out. What are some symptoms that would lead to my coil going out?too...many...questions...:lol::D:thup:

Alright. About the 20 and 4...I meant that it should have shown you the code for 4 first...but you described it as being the code for 20 first. Either way is fine.

Sounds like your ignitor is fine. Bad coil would definately cause no spark...in fact I'm willing to bet that's your problem...Code 4 might be a secondary problem, you'll have to check that once youget it running.

[novellino21]

So..........really my challenge is to get the car to start. Abviously!!! So if I replace my coil, the car will start?????

[naustin]

If you're sure it is spark related I would replace the Distributer first, since these are notorious for failing on the Probe. If that doesn't fix it, replace the Coil too. These are two things that are easy to do and not that expensive. If neither cures your problem. You had better take it to a mechanic, but be prepared for the bill. :eek: Unless you want to keep rolling the dice, but that's all you're really doing.

Good luck

[Aaron3969]

He already reset the enertia switch. Try this for a fuel test. Pull a plug on the front bank and have someone crank it over and look for fuel vapor coming out of the plug hole. If nothing comes out, youre not getting fuel. You might also wanna run to a parts store, like the great Advance Auto Parts I work at ;) , and grab a spark tester.

[Shrep]

You could have a bad coil, AND a bad Disty.

replace the Distributer first, If that doesn't fix it, replace the Coil too.
If you replace the Disty you'll be replacing the coil...the coil is integral with the distributor. The other thing too, it's very unlikely that the disty itself would fail, it's just a mechanical part that spins off the cam. It's all the electrical shit inside that goes to crap. The coil, ignitor, cap, rotor and cam sensor are all that should go wrong. It's unfortunate, but I know the inside of these damn disty's better than I know about the inner workins of my new car.

[naustin]

If you replace the Disty you'll be replacing the coil...the coil is integral with the distributor. The other thing too, it's very unlikely that the disty itself would fail, it's just a mechanical part that spins off the cam. It's all the electrical shit inside that goes to crap. The coil, ignitor, cap, rotor and cam sensor are all that should go wrong. It's unfortunate, but I know the inside of these damn disty's better than I know about the inner workins of my new car.

:shy: :thup: Listen to Shrep.

[novellino21]

Do i have to replace the whole distributor assembly? Or just the cap and rotor? I have already replace the cap and rotor. ALso, I have put a new ignitor in. I took the advise of someone on protalk and wired in the GM ignitor which required clipping a wire in the disty to by pass the stock ignitor. My question is: Is the stock ignitor in the disty. So when I get a new disty will that have a stock ignitor in it.

[novellino21]

Where is the coil located?

[Aaron3969]

Its located in the disty. If you take the cap off, youll notice theres a tower that sticks into the disty. Follow that to the middle, removing all the rotating assemblies, and youll find the coil.

[novellino21]

Where can I get a new coil? Is a junk yard possible?

[Shrep]

yeah, that's a possibility, however you won't know if it's any good or not. :shrug:

[Aaron3969]

I can take a look tomorrow at work because I get a discount. I believe our coils are over $100 because of their application specific design. Itd be cheaper to hook your car up for an external coil. Plus, youd get a better spark with a MSD Blaster2 coil than your stocker.

[Shrep]

I can take a look tomorrow at work because I get a discount. I believe our coils are over $100 because of their application specific design. Itd be cheaper to hook your car up for an external coil. Plus, youd get a better spark with a MSD Blaster2 coil than your stocker.That's very true, and a Blaster2 is only like 30 bux. It's kinda a PITA to get the terminal on teh disty cap, but you may be able to find someone on PT or PE who is willing to sell one. Otherwise, PRD sells them.

BTW, I have another coil around here somewhere that you're welcome to try. I dont' know if it's any good or not, so I'll only charge you if it works. Prolly like $15. :shrug:

[novellino21]

What does the stock coil look like? Can you explain to me how to install a Blaster 2?

[Shrep]

What does the stock coil look like? Can you explain to me how to install a Blaster 2?Well...the stock coil is kinda hard to describe. It's kinda like a ball of wire all glued together. :lol:

Installing a blaster coil involves either purchasing a distributor cap that has already been modified to accept an external coil, or modifying one yourself which involves getting a universal coil tower, and mounting it on the disty cap at just the right spot. (I can send you a link to directions if you want) It's kind of a lot of work. Once that's all done, you can just plug the coil into the disty and your done. :D

[novellino21]

I think i'm going to stick with the stock coil. But thanks for the tip. I'll do that later on when I get a new engine. Or if I ever get my car to run at all. The blaster coil just sounds like too much work right now. On top of that, the car is not even running. I just want to get it running. The futhest i've gone on taking apart the disty is I reached a thing that looked like a cross. They looked like magnets or somthing. How much further do I need to go?

[Shrep]

That's the coil. :D Sorry I didn't describe it better.

[novellino21]

Just put in new coil and no go. Still no spark. How much is a new distributor?

New Parts:
-coil
-disty cap
-rotor
-spark plugs
-new ignitor module DR-100 (wells)

[novellino21]

Well it turns out that it was the whole entire disty. THe shaft and everything. The runs perfectly now. I tryed to install my reverse indiglo the other day. I broke my gas gauge and my temp. gauge is stuck. Pictures are at this site: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...&category=43952

Thanks for all of your guy's help!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Splat]

you cannot post an abbreviated link.

you have to right click the original like and hit "copy shortcut" that will save the ENTIRE link in your "clipboard" then you can paste the link so it will work.